After working in fashion and as the editor for a major food journalism outlet, Katherine opened BIG NIGHT - a New York-based brick and mortar selling everything you need for an epic dinner party - food, drink, kitchenware, glassware, etc. Everything is brilliantly curated from talented makers from across the world.
Meet Katherine Lewin.
She is one of my oldest friends dating all the way back nearly 30 years ago, when we first met in preschool. She’s always been a kindred spirit, particularly when it comes to food. In high school, she had an encyclopedic knowledge of every worthwhile restaurant in our hometown - a characteristic which I thought to be extremely cool.
After working in fashion and as the editor for a major food journalism outlet, Katherine opened BIG NIGHT - a New York-based brick and mortar selling everything you need for an epic dinner party - food, drink, kitchenware, glassware, etc. Everything is brilliantly curated from talented makers from across the world.
While there are many choices out there to procure dinner party materials, it’s Katherine’s personal touch that sets Big Night apart.
Katherine is the domestic goddess you want curating your home, your kitchen, your dinner party. She is also one of the most tasteful people I know. The whole store - store is the wrong noun here, the whole “experience” that is Big Night is a triumphant reflection of her creativity is a personal inspiration to witness. If you live in or are visiting New York City, make a point to check out either of her two locations in Greenpoint or the West Village.
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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:11
Jordan Haro
Hey everyone. Thanks for your patience in awaiting new Prix Fixe Podcast episodes. It's been a good while since wrapping up our first season. I assure you that delays well intentioned. I'm a little bit of a perfectionist. I aim to present high quality stories for your listening pleasure, which takes time and resources. Part of that is making sure I'm continually educating myself on all things discussed here on the show.
00:00:25:13 - 00:00:48:09
Jordan Haro
And while I love podcasting, it's not my main job. This is a human made, not AI made, labor of love. So I appreciate your patience in awaiting the second season. We have a ton of fabulous guests ahead, starting with this episode right here.
00:00:48:11 - 00:01:11:19
Jordan Haro
Meet Katherine Lewin. She's one of my oldest friends dating all the way back nearly 30 years ago when we first met in preschool. She's always been a kindred spirit, particularly when it comes to food. In high school, she had an encyclopedic knowledge of every worthwhile restaurant in our hometown, a characteristic which I thought to be extremely cool. After working in fashion and as the editor for a major food journalism outlet.
00:01:11:21 - 00:01:32:21
Jordan Haro
Katherine opened Big Night in New York based brick and mortar selling everything you need for an epic dinner party, food, drink, kitchenware, glassware, etc. Everything is brilliantly curated from talented makers from across the world. While there are many choices out there from which to procure at dinner party materials. It's Katherine's personal touch that sets big night apart.
00:01:32:23 - 00:01:52:12
Jordan Haro
She is a domestic goddess that you want curating your home, your kitchen, your dinner party. She's also one of the most tasteful people I know. The whole store and store is kind of the wrong noun here. It's more like an experience that is big. Nate is a tramp, that reflection of her creativity. And it's a personal inspiration to witness.
00:01:52:14 - 00:02:14:07
Jordan Haro
If you live in or are visiting New York City, make a point to check out either for two locations in Greenpoint or the West Village. Also, you'll be hearing a little more of my voice in this episode and upcoming episodes. This new template began here. And seeing as Katherine is one of my oldest friends, only she could turn the format into the show and make it a more natural dialog between us.
00:02:14:09 - 00:02:21:01
Jordan Haro
So thank you, Katherine. And let's dive in.
00:02:21:03 - 00:02:22:08
Katherine Lewin
How do we sound?
00:02:22:10 - 00:02:23:02
Jordan Haro
Sounds perfect.
00:02:23:08 - 00:02:37:20
Katherine Lewin
Okay great. I wanted to tell you, you have a - I mean, you obviously know this city started a podcast. You have a great radio voice. I mean, it sounds like your regular voice, but, like, have you did you work on. Did you ever do, like, voiceover acting or anything?
00:02:37:22 - 00:02:45:23
Jordan Haro
No, I never did. I started out being afraid to have my voice be too much of a part of it. Like, that's why I'm kind of doing like focusing in on on the one person.
00:02:46:20 - 00:02:54:21
Jordan Haro
But I feel like I've been getting more confidence. Okay, Maybe I do. Includes a second mic.
00:02:54:23 - 00:02:55:23
Jordan Haro
Sometimes.
00:02:56:01 - 00:02:56:21
Jordan Haro
I've been afraid to.
00:02:56:23 - 00:02:59:10
Katherine Lewin
You should. You should. Yeah. You have a great voice for it.
00:02:59:14 - 00:03:01:17
Jordan Haro
We could do it on this one if you wanted to.
00:03:01:19 - 00:03:02:07
Katherine Lewin
Why not?
00:03:02:09 - 00:03:08:00
Jordan Haro
Okay. Okay.
00:03:08:02 - 00:03:10:09
Jordan Haro
Okay. So now. Now it's.
00:03:10:11 - 00:03:16:14
Katherine Lewin
Now it's a two mic podcast for this. A special edition episode.
00:03:16:16 - 00:03:39:04
Jordan Haro
That's right. Just make sure your cell phone is off. Yeah. Cool. Sick. So, yeah, normally I always just don't have a microphone, and I just throw very simple questions, and I make the guest try to talk as much as they can.
00:03:39:06 - 00:03:51:09
Katherine Lewin
Yeah, I got that sense. But it means you're asking good questions, because a lot of times on podcasts, people ask the fucking stupid s questions that don't go anywhere. So I can tell you're asking something that's getting them to like, really go on.
00:03:51:11 - 00:04:11:12
Jordan Haro
I got a good question going or a good statement before where I always say, like, if you think you're rambling, it's okay. Yeah, you're not. And that's good. Just keep it going. But since it's the two part conversation now, I will try to. I'm still going to throw you some great dense questions.
00:04:11:12 - 00:04:15:02
Katherine Lewin
So you just tell me what you want. Yeah, you just lead the way.
00:04:15:03 - 00:04:17:07
Jordan Haro
Start off by, how would you introduce yourself?
00:04:17:09 - 00:04:37:01
Katherine Lewin
I knew you were going to start there. I would introduce myself by saying that I'm Katherine Lewin and I'm the founder and owner of a shop called Big Night, which is a dinner and party essentials store in my neighborhood of Greenpoint, Brooklyn.
00:04:37:03 - 00:04:43:11
Jordan Haro
And tell me where your story begins.
00:04:43:13 - 00:05:25:04
Katherine Lewin
Where does it begin? Well, let's see. I guess it really, really begins with, you know, I was born in L.A. and kind of called myself lucky enough to sort of have had dual citizenship in L.A. and Austin, Texas. Growing up, it's when my parents divorced when I was really young, my mom moved me to Austin, which, you know, in the early nineties, her whole family who lived in California was like, Why the fuck are you going to a place called Austin, Texas?
00:05:25:04 - 00:05:48:15
Katherine Lewin
And I'm lucky we ended up there because, well, one, it's an incredible city and I got to see it before it changed in all the ways that it has both for good and not so good. But also I think I grew up in to places that have some of the most incredible food in the country, L.A. and Austin.
00:05:48:15 - 00:06:29:02
Katherine Lewin
So maybe that's where the story starts. And then came back to L.A. in a real way for college and sort of like my love for the city and the food. And it was further instilled. But I thought I was going to be a fashion girl. That's that's what I thought I was going to do. I got a really incredible internship with J.Crew in college, which turned into a full time job offer, which is how I ended up coming to New York right after graduation, like a week after.
00:06:29:04 - 00:07:00:23
Katherine Lewin
And that's where I've lived since. That being said, I was not that excited to move to New York because I was just so in love with Los Angeles and thought, I'll be back here soon enough. I'll be back here in L.A. soon enough. And I and I haven't left New York. I'm still here. And furthering that, I've now opened up a store around the corner from my house, which means I really never leave New York, which I guess is to say I've really fallen in love with it.
00:07:00:23 - 00:07:16:21
Katherine Lewin
And for so many reasons, most especially sort of discovering food and restaurants in that city and how incredible it is to eat in New York.
00:07:16:23 - 00:07:42:02
Katherine Lewin
But the story does sort of, I guess, start in New York with thinking that I was going to be in fashion. I thought I was either going to be in retail or I really the dream was to be some sort of, you know, magazine editor and my job out of college was that I was a merchant, which which actually means it's another word for a buyer.
00:07:42:04 - 00:08:13:11
Katherine Lewin
But at a company like J.Crew, rather than buying from other brands like you would if you were a buyer at like Bloomingdale's, you actually quote unquote, buy from your own design team. And I guess the reason I'm rambling about this topic is that it actually that was such a formative experience to sort of learn what buying and merchandizing was And like the building blocks of retail, like right out of college, I mean, I was like a kid essentially.
00:08:13:13 - 00:08:44:10
Katherine Lewin
And even though in the moment I was like the things I was merchandizing were men's boxers, men's swim trunks, men's khakis, things that I didn't have a lot of passion for. I still I mean, it was an incredible experience because at that time, you know, we had a really incredible design team that was you'd walk into a room and they had like designed hundreds and hundreds of garments of like their vision of what a future season like a year and a half from now would look like in terms of clothing.
00:08:44:10 - 00:09:13:02
Katherine Lewin
And then you're you're sort of taking all those designs and saying, okay, I like that pant, but let's tweak it. You know, in this way or these colors or these colors in this part of the country we're going to send this plan to. So it was really actually like an incredible experience that I think despite the fact that it happened right out of college, I really taken with me into this new very, very different form of retail that I'm doing.
00:09:13:04 - 00:09:39:04
Katherine Lewin
But let's see, I went from merchandizing and J.Crew to copywriting because I really, as I said, wasn't that interested in how many pairs of men's chinos we bought. But I wanted to learn how to tell the story of why a customer might love those chinos and fall in love with them. And who was the mill behind the fabric and why do we chose that mill and where did we come up with the color or the name for the color?
00:09:39:06 - 00:10:02:18
Katherine Lewin
And I was really interested in in how you could tell stories around things as mundane as a chino and have it become something sort of magical and aspirational. And I knew that I wanted to be the person coming up with sort of like how to message those stories. I started cold emailing people in the company, sort of being like, Hey, like I'm two floors down, but like I really want to do what you do.
00:10:02:20 - 00:10:39:12
Katherine Lewin
And you helped me get over there, which wasn't a thing that anyone did. And it worked. Essentially, someone in copywriting took a coffee with me and helped me get in there, made the move, and that I spent a bit of time kind of really learning how to tell the stories of products. And I think again, like even though that was in a totally different life and worlds than I'm in now, telling the stories of the goods and the people behind them is like one of the most important things about what I do now, and I think that came from that experience.
00:10:39:14 - 00:11:20:01
Katherine Lewin
At the same time, during that time, I was sort of like exploring New York through its restaurants, through its food. I was spending all of my like very little income trying to eat as much as I could and basically happened to find out that someone that I worked with knew someone or was married to someone who knew. One of the co-founders of the website called The Infatuation, which at the time was a pretty small site written by three people at the time, the two co-founders and the their only other editorial hire.
00:11:20:06 - 00:11:44:23
Katherine Lewin
It was three it was a three person staff. And I basically I shot my shot and this person that I worked with, it's all coming back to me now. The person that I worked with her husband sent Andrew, the co-founder, an email pretending that he and I were real good friends and that I was going to be great if they would just consider hiring me basically, like, you know, someone just wrote a reference email not knowing me.
00:11:44:23 - 00:12:07:21
Katherine Lewin
And that email landed and Andrew's inbox and they happened to be looking for the next person to add to their team. And I hit them at the right time and I bother them enough. And ultimately I was able to get a job there as an associate editor. And this was like, when what was that title or what was that job?
00:12:07:23 - 00:12:44:17
Katherine Lewin
Unclear. But I started to do writing and editing for them. So and that was sort of like the real beginning of a career in and around food. And it was an amazing six year period where I got to help sort of build this restaurant discovery site across the country and in London and continue to sort of like be such a good just educational force in my life around food and restaurants.
00:12:44:17 - 00:13:11:16
Katherine Lewin
And, you know, again, like the stories behind people making food around the world, actually. And I think now what I'm doing with Big Night is absolutely a sort of a combination of like the retail side of my life and the food and restaurant side of my life. I felt like it was so much rambling. Like I literally like that story is like need that could be like, edited down to like 2 seconds.
00:13:11:17 - 00:13:47:03
Jordan Haro
It was awesome. Yeah, I, I definitely, I've known you for a long time and that like even that really helped to refresh my memory too because I forgot about like two chapters of J Crew. but I guess, yeah, like you've always had the knowledge of where to eat and where to drink. Like that's always been your like one of your sweet spot, like secret, like, I don't know what to call it, but like, you've always had that ability to, like, recommend, like the best places for a given situation.
00:13:47:03 - 00:14:25:04
Jordan Haro
And I guess, like, how, how did you, like not only just take that skill and like, apply it at this place where you were basically having to like, also make it like a meaningful experience with your work, Like, you know, like just recommending restaurants all day, I'm sure would get a little tiresome, but you really like, you helped build this company, like you really like how did you grow, like as a professional there?
00:14:25:04 - 00:14:32:05
Jordan Haro
I guess, or, or maybe and by the way, I'm going to be editing myself.
00:14:32:07 - 00:14:33:21
Katherine Lewin
This is great, but I.
00:14:33:22 - 00:14:47:15
Jordan Haro
I'm curious, not even just as a professional, like this thing that you just did for fun. Like marrying that with, like, you know, commerce.
00:14:47:17 - 00:14:49:06
Katherine Lewin
You mean at Big Night.
00:14:49:08 - 00:15:22:00
Jordan Haro
At Big Night and Infatuation. Just like the, like this. You went from this thing that was like, okay, we're doing J.Crew. I'm not feeling it. And we're leaping into, like, a whole nother space, which is food. And I guess, like, what was that process of? Like, even though you're not like, a chef or, you know, like the classic food titles, like, this is, like, exciting.
00:15:22:02 - 00:16:08:13
Katherine Lewin
Well, I think the cool the really cool thing about The Infatuation especially in early days, is that it was definitely written from the perspective of people that just really loved to go to restaurants. And it was it was written by diners in restaurants for other diners in restaurants. And so that was empowering in that, you know, it really wasn't about, you know, whether you had gone to culinary school or or even whether you had gotten to eat, you know, and all of the Michelin starred restaurants in New York City, it was more like, are you a person who is really excited about eating in restaurants and wants to share that excitement and knowledge
00:16:08:13 - 00:16:38:16
Katherine Lewin
with other people and and I was and it'll you know, that entry point that allowed me to learn so much about the city and its restaurants and but yeah it was a totally if I didn't you know I had never been a I at that time I wouldn't have even really called myself a professional writer. I mean, I was a copywriter, but writing copy for a brand is really different than like writing a restaurant review.
00:16:38:18 - 00:17:11:09
Katherine Lewin
And the consumption of that is very different. And obviously, like the brand voice of a J.Crew versus The Infatuation was super different. And while Big Night Now is definitely the culmination of sort of like these two past careers of mine, that was absolutely a leap like, I mean, I've never I've never started a business before. I've never people ask me all the time like, I was this your first shop?
00:17:11:09 - 00:17:35:15
Katherine Lewin
And it's like funny to me because like, yeah, absolutely. It's my first one. That was a total leap. I think that is, you know, I can have a lot of moments of like insecurity or like imposter. Like, do I even know what I'm doing? But one thing I can count on myself for is like making a gut decision and, like, really, like, running towards it.
00:17:35:17 - 00:18:07:00
Katherine Lewin
And that's absolutely something that I did. You know, when The Infatuation opportunity presented itself to me, like there was no question that I was going to do it, even though at the time, you know, my job at J.Crew was very stable. It was a really big company like y had great benefits, like, you know, all of the things that, you know, a lot of people market is like real security and a job I had and at The Infatuation, you know, it was just starting as a real company, real startup vibes, super small team who knew what the future holds.
00:18:07:02 - 00:18:26:21
Katherine Lewin
And I remember like fielding questions from parents and friends. Like, are you sure this is like, I mean, it seems really cool, but like, are you sure you're going to, like, jump to this? Like, right now? Like right now? And I just had a gut feeling that it was going to be something and I didn't really know what it was going to be, but I knew that I didn't want to miss out.
00:18:26:23 - 00:18:51:23
Katherine Lewin
And I could also tell that the people that were already there were not going to go down without a fight like they were. So clear eyed about what they were trying to build. And that was really compelling. And I wanted to learn from people that felt like that. And I kind of just jumped and there was like, you know, as soon as I even got an interview, you know, I knew I was going to take it if they were going to give it to me.
00:18:51:23 - 00:19:24:07
Katherine Lewin
And a similar feeling came over me six years later when I had the idea for the store. That was sort of like simmering in the back of my mind. And then I found a space and it was like as soon as that happened, I kind of just knew like, there's no going back from this. And once I make that decision, it's like I will learn on the way I will figure it out because I can't let an opportunity like that go without seeing where it might lead.
00:19:24:09 - 00:19:34:20
Jordan Haro
And Big Night, like what is the the sort of thesis of like what is the how would you describe the shop?
00:19:34:22 - 00:20:21:06
Katherine Lewin
Yeah, it's a good question. Big Night is a store that really celebrates moments at home, particularly moments around food at home and we can talk about where the name came from. But one, I think like side plot of the name that I like, really one of the reasons I'm happy that it was big night and not something else is that I think my whole thesis with the store is and any night can be a big night and helping people learn that and know that and feel empowered to make a night at home feel like a big night is like that's the goal for the store for me.
00:20:21:06 - 00:20:54:10
Katherine Lewin
So I called it a dinner and party shop because I also didn't want anyone to feel like, I have to be having a dinner party for this to be like some great and joyful night at home. It could also just be you at home watching a movie with like the best she's played for yourself that you've ever had for dinner or, you know, having a first date at home where you, like, lay out the perfect combination of just like a few items of food and pairings that like, are just a conduit for really good conversation.
00:20:54:12 - 00:21:19:17
Katherine Lewin
So yeah, or if you're a dinner party kind of person, then I hope that the story can be sort of a one stop shop for picking up things to make that meal more special, whether it's ingredients or, you know, the snacks themselves or, you know, beautiful pieces for serving. Just really helping people, you know, take more joy in those kinds of moments at home.
00:21:19:19 - 00:21:54:00
Jordan Haro
Yeah. And I guess something that it was just as an observer, like with you, with The Infatuation and now Big Night like in just as long as I've known you, I feel like you're, like, read on, like what makes a restaurant good or what makes like, a product worth buying or what have you. It's it's like serving a purpose, like a good time at home or whether it's like this is going to, like, provide a great night at a restaurant in like a meaningful way with friends or with family.
00:21:54:00 - 00:22:26:02
Jordan Haro
Like in a way that's not just like, I don't know what the term is, but the way that like restaurant criticism or what have you can be a little like gratuitous for just the sake of like a certain chef or what have you. Where did that come from with you? And like, how did you, like, keep that like kind of integrity of just like, like keeping your like, your priorities are about like, what this stuff is serving.
00:22:27:01 - 00:22:36:05
Jordan Haro
Not like hero worshiping, like, all these different influences.
00:22:36:07 - 00:23:16:11
Katherine Lewin
that's a hard question. I think I just, you know, it's it comes more naturally to speak to what you know, and while always be hoping to learn more of course, but when I think about what kinds of products I might want to bring into the store or experiences I might want to have people have at home help people have at home, I come from a place of like really putting myself in their shoes and wondering what I would want if I walked into a store like mine.
00:23:16:13 - 00:23:47:04
Katherine Lewin
And that's that's a key part of the curation. And then it's funny that you talk about like here, you mentioned here worship. I think something I also think a lot about is like, who are people that are doing incredible things in the space that I want to introduce customers to and it isn't hero worship, but it is like it is about sharing the stories of the people behind these products.
00:23:47:04 - 00:24:15:16
Katherine Lewin
And I think that's where like the storytelling comes into play because I don't know, there's so many stories you walk into where you're like, I can tell that this thing is so cool, but like you're like pulling out your phone to Google. Like, what is this? The packaging looks cool, but why am I drawn to this? And I think it's a hope of mine that like, even if like someone walks into the store and doesn't buy anything, they've at least learned something about someone making something that they didn't know about.
00:24:15:22 - 00:24:36:05
Katherine Lewin
Or maybe that that person is making a spice they've never heard of were a type of tin officially you've never heard of. But you know, just by going to the store, I hope that they've learned about someone's story who's doing something really cool and special. And maybe that means the next time they see something from that person, they'll think, yeah, I want to actually buy that now.
00:24:36:05 - 00:25:08:22
Katherine Lewin
I want to I want to actually experience that thing. So I think I don't know if this answers your question, but I'm hoping to really give people or help people discover things that really make a difference in their time at home. And if I can also introduce them to people or stories about people that like further enhance that, that feeling at home.
00:25:09:00 - 00:25:34:07
Katherine Lewin
Because I think something that is interesting to me is this like contrast of like restaurants and eating at home. And I think part of the magic of eating in a restaurant is that you buy into someone's vision when you go to a restaurant, like you're sitting down to almost like a theater. In a best case scenario, like I just went to this restaurant last night that blew my mind.
00:25:34:09 - 00:25:55:11
Katherine Lewin
And what was so incredible about it is that, one, the chef was there and I could see her laboring over every plate that went out and putting herself into everything that went out. And then I got to sit down to that dish and look at it and hear what she was thinking when she put the dish together, when she created it.
00:25:55:15 - 00:26:16:15
Katherine Lewin
And then I got to see her physically make it, and then I got to eat it and then I got to ask her questions. And that is something that only happens in restaurants, right, where you like really experience someone's pure creative vision and like, what a thrill it is to be like taken out of your own mind and into the mind of someone else through food that is not going to be replicated at home.
00:26:16:19 - 00:26:47:06
Katherine Lewin
But I do think when you get to learn more about creators and makers of the products that you're going to cook with or even just lay out on a tray and eat directly, it can really help you better connect with all of those feelings that you have when you're in a restaurant. And I think there can be so much like transportive magic to eating at home that comes from knowing more about the people that made the thing that you're enjoying.
00:26:47:08 - 00:27:14:21
Katherine Lewin
So I think there's a lot of, you know, coming from thinking purely about restaurants and my old work to thinking about kind of purely being at home in this new store. I still think there's sort of like a lot of interesting parallels or takeaways that I try to sort of connect between like restaurant-land and home-land and how can we sort of like blur the lines a little bit more?
00:27:14:22 - 00:27:26:17
Jordan Haro
What's an example of something you were really excited to be sharing like someone's story that you're really proud to be amplifying?
00:27:26:19 - 00:27:51:23
Katherine Lewin
I think one of the very first she was either the first or the second founder that I reached out to. Her name is Skyler Mapes and she's the co-founder of an olive oil called EXAU. And it's she and her husband, Giuseppe, who are the owners. And their story is just their story. And what they're doing is really awesome.
00:27:52:01 - 00:28:40:14
Katherine Lewin
She's American. She's from California. He is Calabrian, like, fully from the south of Italy. And they are basically putting a incredibly thoughtful and modern perspective into super traditional Italian olive oil making. And you know what? What, Skyler, what I learned that Skyler cares the most about isn't just making this, like, sublime, truly incredible olive oil. But she also really cares that people understand, like, what olive oil is, how to use it in cooking, how not to use it in cooking, what best practices for production of olive oil are.
00:28:40:16 - 00:29:18:20
Katherine Lewin
If you follow her on Instagram, you literally get to watch the entire process from start to finish of their olive oil being made. So it feels so immersive. And that is really interesting to me is like like being able to be really a part of someone's food story outside of a restaurant. So I would say Skyler and the story of her making olive oil with Giuseppe, her husband, and like sort of like the product of that, what his example is something I'm super excited to tell people about.
00:29:18:22 - 00:29:41:07
Jordan Haro
it's okay with you. Explain. Big Night. Just the title. What where that name came to you.
00:29:41:09 - 00:30:02:14
Katherine Lewin
The secret is that it wasn't going to be called big name. It was going to be called Dinner Party. I have the name. If the name dinner party came to me, like in a like it came to me as if in a dream, like I was like, I know what I want to call this store. It's so dead simple.
00:30:02:16 - 00:30:32:10
Katherine Lewin
And it was also I came up with that name, came to me like in peak pandemic, where like, no one was having any any dinner parties, obviously. And there was something so, like, evocative and like, nostalgia like about that. And I felt like when we can do this again, like one, we can have dinner parties. Like, I just want it to be so clear that like, it is a store to help people remember the joy of and also like how to have people over to eat.
00:30:32:12 - 00:30:57:12
Katherine Lewin
And I, like, fell in love with just like how clear that name rang for the purpose of the shop. But as all failed name stories go, when I had to come up with the name, of course I look to see if there was anyone else that had that name. And of course, at that time it was clear, all clear that, you know, there was no Instagram, there was nothing by that name in New York.
00:30:57:12 - 00:31:25:07
Katherine Lewin
And then when things really started to escalate with the space, my best friend was over and we were talking about it and she sort of like absentmindedly typed it into Instagram again and I saw her doing it. I was like, don’t worry, don’t worry like, we've already looked. It's good. And sure enough, she pulls up the Instagram for dinner party, a new restaurant in not just Brooklyn, but in Fort Greene.
00:31:25:09 - 00:31:44:04
Katherine Lewin
So the confusion would be that I was going to have dinner party a shop in Greenpoint, and then there was going to be a dinner party, a restaurant in Fort Greene. And I was so devastated about this. I mean, I put me into a depression for like at least ten days. Like, I was just like, so, you know, you have this, like, you know, a reminder of other things going to be.
00:31:44:06 - 00:32:05:18
Katherine Lewin
And looking back, it's very funny because I'm so happy that that happened and that my name was foiled because that wasn't the right name for the store. It just wasn't because it isn't just the dinner party store. That's sort of one of the uses that I hope people can can take away, is that if they're having a dinner party, great.
00:32:05:19 - 00:32:32:10
Katherine Lewin
We have lots of inspiration and ideas for you, but I'm actually so happy that it led us to like really think long and hard about sort of like the bigger how to get across, the bigger vision for the store, which is this idea of like making the most of time at home. And of course, you know, as one does, we went back to the drawing board with a big brainstorm.
00:32:32:12 - 00:32:57:07
Katherine Lewin
Nothing I came up with felt good enough, and then I got an email from my mom. She just emailed me. You know, I think she got really into like she wanted to be the one to come up with something. And she went back to old movies for inspiration. And the first idea she came up with was Dinner at Eight, which is a classic old movie, which I kind of loved that like and or something like energetic about that and kind of like sexy.
00:32:57:09 - 00:33:22:20
Katherine Lewin
But that wasn't quite right. A little confusing for a store and then she emailed me, like in the middle of the night one night and said, Big name. And I looked at the email the next day and it was just like done. It was just perfect because it just encapsulated everything I wanted. I wanted something that felt like confident and sexy and like a feeling.
00:33:22:20 - 00:33:42:20
Katherine Lewin
I wanted a feeling and I felt like big night was that feeling like I wanted people to feel like, yeah, like I want to have a big night. Who doesn't want to have a big night? And you can have that at home. And as soon as she sent that email like it was a done deal, I mean, not to mention the back of the movie is like incredible and iconic.
00:33:42:20 - 00:34:06:09
Katherine Lewin
And the funny thing is, I wondered or thought like, huh I hope people aren't confused that they think this is like a big night, like an homage to the movie in some way, or that like it's somehow related to the movie. But actually I'm surprised by how few people even know that it's a movie. And then the best thing that happens is people will come into the store and, you know, this happens like every once in a while, someone will come in and be like, Big Night!
00:34:06:12 - 00:34:28:18
Katherine Lewin
It's my favorite movie. And then everyone else in the shop will kind of look around and be like, It's a movie? And then we get to say like, Yes, you have to watch this incredible movie. And they're sort of like that just like fun side plot is that for me? And I think for a lot of people, you also think about this just really a special film that also was all about one night of eating.
00:34:28:20 - 00:34:38:04
Katherine Lewin
And yeah, it's just it's I'm so happy with where the name landed because I think it was it was very much meant to be.
00:34:38:06 - 00:34:46:08
Jordan Haro
Yeah, it's funny you mentioning how few people know that like, I've run into that a lot with our, especially our generation.
00:34:46:10 - 00:35:00:02
Katherine Lewin
It's crazy. Especially considering like the, the Tucci-sance like the fact that like he has like everyone knows who he is and what, you know, his whole career back story. But somehow Big Night is like kind of left out of it. It doesn't make any sense to me.
00:35:00:04 - 00:35:06:21
Jordan Haro
We rewatched you recently and I was thinking like, this should be on Broadway. Like a new-
00:35:07:01 - 00:35:07:22
Katherine Lewin
That would be incredible.
00:35:07:22 - 00:35:10:09
Jordan Haro
Doesn't need much, you know.
00:35:10:11 - 00:35:14:10
Katherine Lewin
It's a free idea, someone better take it.
00:35:14:12 - 00:35:47:01
Jordan Haro
I guess, too. Like along the road of launching this project during the pandemic and, just like when I think of somebody opening the first shop, they're opening their first shop. And I just see like the hurdles of like one pandemic to New York City for three. Like, I don't know, like there's just, I'm sure, a long, long, a long laundry list of hurdles.
00:35:47:01 - 00:35:57:14
Jordan Haro
And I know you involved friends and you really, like made it like a like a wolf pack mentality. Tell me about that.
00:35:57:16 - 00:36:31:11
Katherine Lewin
Yeah, I think that I knew if I was going to pull this off, I needed people that knew a lot more than I did about certain things to, like, be part of, as you say, the pack that made it happen. Basically, the store was not a done deal until the lease was signed and I first walked the space at the end of March 2021.
00:36:31:13 - 00:37:03:13
Katherine Lewin
And when I say I walked the space, what would I actually be? That makes it sound like much more formal than it was. What actually happened is that I passed. I was walking past the space, which is right around the corner from my apartment that I had walked by a million times before. But on this particular day it dawned on me that the space had been sitting vacant and was still vacant, had been sitting there for for about six months at that time, at least six months.
00:37:03:15 - 00:37:23:04
Katherine Lewin
And it just it just hit me funny that day, like, how is the space still vacant? It's this beautiful has these massive windows that like when the light is shining in, like the whole space is spotless. And it was one of those like, you know, just like moments where you feel like there's, like a voice. It's like, hello, Like, wake the fuck up.
00:37:23:07 - 00:37:48:00
Katherine Lewin
This is a sign. And in that very moment, I looked in the window, saw a big broker's sign in the window and called the number. And the guy on the line was like, Yeah, you can see it. Do you want to see like today? And he seemed, you know, he was like, Yeah, a lot of people have looked at it, you know, I think I said something like, How is this still available?
00:37:48:00 - 00:38:08:02
Katherine Lewin
And he was like, Yeah, I don't know. Like a lot of people have seen it. You want to look at it like today and we did. I walked the space that day. It was the only space I ever walk for the store and that was at the end of March. And obviously it was and has been such a volatile time in all aspects.
00:38:08:02 - 00:38:37:09
Katherine Lewin
And I think, you know, there were so many different businesses that they could have given the space to. And I think I am so lucky that they ended up going with me. But it was a very long road of them deciding to give it to me and not someone else who, you know, could have had a different arrangement lease wise who could have, you know, I think they probably were entertaining a lot of different avenues they could have taken with the tenants.
00:38:37:11 - 00:39:07:23
Katherine Lewin
So basically from the end of March, throughout all of April, throughout all of May, I still fully had my full time job at The Infatuation. And it was just this sort of like lingering question of like, am I going to get this space? Because you just don't know until the thing is signed and even up even like even once I had a, a lease in front of me and we were going back and forth about the contract, like you still don't really know it's going to be a thing until you know.
00:39:08:01 - 00:39:31:06
Katherine Lewin
So it wasn't a done deal until at least was signed on June 7th. I put in my notice at work on June 8th, and then I knew I wanted to get the store open before the end of summer, which looking back is like a frankly unhinged timeline because that put us at having basically two months to get it done.
00:39:31:08 - 00:39:54:07
Katherine Lewin
But I knew that there was going to be this like energy once peak summer hit of people being out in the streets again. And the vaccine was looking more optimistic, more and more people were getting vaccinated. It just felt like this was going to be a summer of people celebrating again and feeling joyful. And I didn't want to miss out on that.
00:39:54:09 - 00:40:20:10
Katherine Lewin
And I also had the sense that I wanted the store to like, really be a part of people's routines and that those routines were going to kick in in the fall when people went back to school or back to work. Maybe I didn't really know, but I knew I wanted to be swept up in the summer feeling that happens every year in New York, like that summer magic of people just being out and excited and so we just, like, pushed.
00:40:20:11 - 00:40:47:23
Katherine Lewin
And when I say we, I basically called up one of my closest friends whose name is Erica, who in the pandemic launched her own design build firm called Decorum. And I basically called her and said, I think I'm opening a store. Can you help me build it? And without her help, I can very confidently say the store would not be what it is, and it certainly wouldn't have been finished when it was.
00:40:48:01 - 00:41:13:21
Katherine Lewin
I think so many people endure so much heartache and headache dealing with like a build out like this, even though it's a small space. There are so many intricate details and I had a really strict budget I had to keep to like the store is like entirely bootstrapped savings account went into this, you know, I had and I could not spend that much on the look and feel.
00:41:13:23 - 00:41:36:12
Katherine Lewin
But I also really knew that the look and feel had to be really special. And I knew I couldn't have told you in design terms what I wanted. That's why Erica was so special, is that she was able to sort of like translate the garbled stuff that came out of my mouth that was like, I want to feel like you're in someone's home and joyful and happy, really happy.
00:41:36:12 - 00:41:58:17
Katherine Lewin
I just kept I remember saying I kept saying, like joyful and happy and colorful and inviting and warm and inclusive and like, you want to hang out in there, even though it's like a tiny space. And she was able to take that directive and turn it into what the shop looks like and feels like, which I hope is and think is a lot of those things.
00:41:58:19 - 00:42:18:15
Katherine Lewin
But without her, there is absolutely no way we could have done it on the timeline that we did. And that I mean, I just feel like I just hit the jackpot and then I, like avoided all of the like, as you say, like the minefield of like trying to open something like this in real life and do it on a timeline.
00:42:18:15 - 00:43:02:01
Katherine Lewin
And as a result, we were able to open on August 28th. So that's like two months and 20 days after we signed the lease. But also during that that two month and 20 days like I had had a full time job and it was a really busy full time job. And it's not like I was super able to like also do the full time job that would have been prepping for big night on the side, like I did my job until my last day, which means like all the product, not just sourcing, but like convincing people to let me sell their stuff in the store, which was really hard in the beginning when like, who
00:43:02:01 - 00:43:16:03
Katherine Lewin
am I? A lady to trying to open a store for the first time. They don't know who I am. They don't know what the store is going to be. I can try to like convince them of the vision, but it's really hard to like see when there are no photos except for an empty space that hasn't been renovated.
00:43:16:05 - 00:43:36:15
Katherine Lewin
You don't have any experience doing a store before, so you have to sort of like build trust and vendor. Is that the way that you're going to share their product or tell their story is going to be good, especially with these like smaller makers? You know, it's really important to them that the product is being presented in the way that they hope and feel it deserves to be.
00:43:36:17 - 00:44:18:08
Katherine Lewin
So it was like that two month and 20 day period of physically building the store, finding the products, buying the products, figuring out how many, how many to buy and what quantity is making sure that they would arrive in time, which thanks to the supply chain, so many of them didn't. And then figuring out how to fill in for the ones that weren't going to arrive, it felt like, I mean, I've never done Broadway, but it felt like preparing for like opening night of something where you're like, I just I just want people to see it the way I see it in my head and I'm all I care about is like putting every ounce
00:44:18:08 - 00:44:42:04
Katherine Lewin
of my energy into, like, sharing this vision with other people and not losing my shot. Because that's the thing in New York City is like people show up on day one and they expect to be like, okay, what's this? What is this? You know, it's not like there isn't a lot of grace. I think, for, you know, people go and expect that the thing is going to be good.
00:44:42:09 - 00:45:04:23
Katherine Lewin
And if it's not, they're like, okay, on to the next. And that's what I love about New York. But it's also really scary and intimidating. And I knew from writing about restaurants and going to so many new restaurants that the people can be harsh and if they go to something new and it isn't what they expected or thought that you know, that it was going to be, you might not see them again.
00:45:05:01 - 00:45:14:20
Katherine Lewin
And that pressure was really writing hard in that in that two month sprint to get it open.
00:45:14:22 - 00:45:18:17
Jordan Haro
Would what is it about a dinner party?
00:45:18:18 - 00:45:59:17
Katherine Lewin
I think I think there's a magic to dinner parties, just like I think there's a magic to restaurants. Very different magic. I think the reason you have a dinner party is that you don't exactly know what's going to happen throughout the course of the night. And that is something really magical to me. I think, of course, food and how you put the table together and what drinks you serve are all key elements, but they're really key elements that are just a conduit to people being together at home.
00:45:59:18 - 00:46:30:10
Katherine Lewin
And the way that people are together at home is very different than the way that people are together out in the world. It's not better or worse. It's just more intimate, it's more conducive to slower conversation that doesn't get interrupted by things like ordering or ordering more wine or, you know, like from paying or signing the bill or figuring out where do we go next.
00:46:30:10 - 00:47:03:14
Katherine Lewin
It's like it can just people can just be and things are the night is taken care of for the most part, because you're going to just the point is to be together at home and there's something also to be said for the person who agrees to host that kind of a night and put that together for people. Because when you're the one hosting a dinner party, you're creating that magic for people like you're whether you're cooking a really elaborate meal or you're ordering and like you're still sort of like the maestro for the night.
00:47:03:16 - 00:47:27:06
Katherine Lewin
And I think, you know, I wanted to like, create a shop where that sort of like emotional and energetic labor of being like, yeah, I'm going to like, have this kind of night where I can make that easier and more fun and just make anyone feel like they could be the ones to do that.
00:47:27:07 - 00:47:50:16
Jordan Haro
Also, tell me, I know I have not been to this, but I've seen through the the lens of social media like this. The ham party, you like you you have there may be others, but this seems to me like maybe the the dinner party that you might be most known for.
00:47:50:18 - 00:48:17:13
Katherine Lewin
well, that's an honor because it's a dinner party or it's it's really a party that I am lucky enough to co-host with a very close friend of mine. And I owe her all the credit for sort of like being the one to decide that we were going to have a ham party. This is a close friend of mine who also grew up in Texas, and we were roommates at the beginning of our time together in New York.
00:48:17:14 - 00:48:45:20
Katherine Lewin
And, you know, this is when we were like 22 and no one was having dinner parties. So I don't think we ever use that verbiage. But we were sitting around one night with like other friends who definitely hadn't grown up in Texas or the South, and it was it was close to Christmas. We were talking about the holidays and one of us mentioned Honey Baked Ham, like, I just love Honeybee Ham.
00:48:45:20 - 00:49:05:07
Katherine Lewin
You just know when the holidays are coming, the ham is coming. And like you kind of just like saw that everyone around was like, Honey baked. Who? What are you talking about? Like, what is that? And we were like, You don't know what a honey baked ham is. Hold on. What? And all these, like, East Coast kids were like, What are you talking about?
00:49:05:07 - 00:49:38:20
Katherine Lewin
Like ham with honey? And we decided that we needed to have our own holiday party where we would introduce people to the joy of Honey Beat Ham. And that is how the Ham party started. And that was nine years ago. And, you know, with the exception of COVID years, we've had one every year since. And it's truly just like an absolutely ridiculous celebration of ham and ham adjacent foods.
00:49:38:22 - 00:50:04:15
Katherine Lewin
Everyone has to bring some item that either is ham oriented or related to him. There is a procession of the ham that happens where like at the right, the perfect point of the night, we decide that it's time to bring the hams out, and then everyone creates a soccer tunnel with their arms and the hams. We run the hands down the hallway through the arms of all these people.
00:50:04:19 - 00:50:35:05
Katherine Lewin
It's just utterly insane. And I think, like, I mean, that's an extreme example, and it's so funny to hear you, like, call that a dinner party, because I've never thought of that as a dinner party. And I think that's exactly why the name dinner party for the shop would never have made sense, because, you know, like, that is a party that is absolutely about food, but it's also not it's about the ridiculousness of like a night where everything revolves around ham.
00:50:35:05 - 00:50:52:10
Katherine Lewin
Like, I mean, the night ends in ham backs, which is where you take a shot of whiskey and you chase it with him. Like, that's just like what you do. So I think that's such a good example of like the many forms of joy that can happen when you combine people and food at home. Absolutely.
00:50:52:10 - 00:51:23:02
Jordan Haro
I I'm also curious, too, like in New York City, this is so I mean, I could be totally wrong, but I feel like just with people living in smaller spaces, obviously pre-pandemic, more people were going out. I mean, maybe I don't know what the current state of affairs are, but it just seems like New York's mode is we're going out to restaurants, we're going out to bars, we're going out to whatever, and to like bring the party to your house.
00:51:23:04 - 00:51:30:16
Jordan Haro
Is that kind of a novel idea that I'm sure everybody's getting behind now in the pandemic?
00:51:30:16 - 00:52:02:00
Katherine Lewin
Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely accurate. I think especially that contrast is even clearer. You know, when I come visit L.A. and I'm reminded of in L.A., have bigger homes, sometimes with yards, there's so many compelling reasons to hang out at home. And in New York, people have tiny apartments. They might have a fire escape. And yeah, to your point, like so much of the city is programed to be asking like, where are we going tonight?
00:52:02:02 - 00:52:51:09
Katherine Lewin
What are we doing? And I think that the pandemic, at least from my perspective, it did make people both appreciate, I don't know if appreciates the right word, made people more comfortable with the idea of being at home. But also, I think especially in New York, after a year of people being at home alone, I think idea of sharing your home with others and the privilege of that is like something that now people aren't taking for granted, like whereas three years ago, yeah, come over for dinner, like doesn't seem like that big of a deal.
00:52:51:11 - 00:53:27:01
Katherine Lewin
But I remember, I mean, part of a really big reason why I decided to open the store is that it struck me in the middle of the pandemic, making these meals that I was only sharing with myself and my partner. I just started thinking about like, wow, what we really took for granted that we used to be able to, like, make these meals and then share them with friends and have them over and I thought that whenever we're able to do that again, I think people are going to want to do that, like really want to do it in a way that like even before it was like, cool, That would be nice.
00:53:27:01 - 00:53:48:14
Katherine Lewin
If one day I did that, I felt like people would want to luxuriate in that because it was something that none of us could do in the same way that like none of us could go drink a martini at the bar of a restaurant, or none of us would go see a movie or go see a play. Like you started to, like, fantasize about all these things that you could do once the world was safer.
00:53:48:16 - 00:54:15:16
Katherine Lewin
And I was thinking a lot about having people over. And I thought that with all the cooking that all of us were suddenly doing, like, whether you were like, new to cooking or you had been doing, you had been cooking at home, everyone was talking more. And I thought like, people are going to want to also, like maybe cook for people for the first time in their lives because they suddenly had to learn how to cook and now they know how to cook and they'll probably want to do that.
00:54:15:16 - 00:54:37:19
Katherine Lewin
But with friends. And I think I think without the pandemic and that sort of like realization of having people over at home actually being a really special thing, not to be taken for granted. Without that, I'm not sure that big night as a concept would make sense.
00:54:37:21 - 00:54:47:02
Jordan Haro
And I guess where is the direction for beginning? Like what is what is in store for the future?
00:54:47:04 - 00:55:22:01
Katherine Lewin
I think Big Night is four months old, which is hard for me to wrap my head around because it's been a really amazing four months, but also sometimes feels like it's been four years. But I'm still absolutely figuring out what the road ahead is. But I do I do want big night to be synonymous with spending a really great time at home, and I want it to be known as something that can help people do that.
00:55:22:03 - 00:55:44:15
Katherine Lewin
And I think there's a variety of like roads that could lead to that. But that that's something that I know that I want to keep sort of like inspiring joy in people's at home eating experiences. And I want to keep sort of empowering people to do that. And I want to keep introducing people to people, makers and brands that can be a part of that for them.
00:55:44:20 - 00:55:58:17
Katherine Lewin
So that's that's the like that's the big dream. The question is how we go about achieving that. But to be figured out this year for sure.
00:55:58:19 - 00:56:36:08
Jordan Haro
Well, it's super inspiring because I mean, you're a small business owner, you know, and I mean, that's that's like that's an honorable place to be. And I mean, what else? I guess being a small business owner and going through this four month process, like what has been like the biggest like invigorating feeling that you've you've felt from, you know, like obviously you're getting things done and you're knocking it out of the park and people are coming and, you know, the items are selling like what?
00:56:36:12 - 00:56:46:04
Jordan Haro
But beyond that, like what has been the biggest like yes, like this is working.
00:56:46:06 - 00:57:09:14
Katherine Lewin
I see the way that it's working in a lot of different small ways. And they all bring a lot of joy. I get you know, it could be as small as like seeing the way that people will post a picture of like a spread that they've made at home and the way that they've, like, used big night products.
00:57:09:14 - 00:57:46:11
Katherine Lewin
Like that's like a tiny example that like is awesome because you see you see that this vision that you had for how this shop could function in someone's life is like coming to fruition and it's being made real. It feels like almost dreamlike, like you're like about exactly how I wanted you to want to use these things or to try these things and you are and like, it's just it's, it's almost like surreal to see that in play.
00:57:46:13 - 00:58:15:11
Katherine Lewin
I think. I think as someone who I've always felt like being creative is something that I've like as a concept is something that I've sort of always like not struggled with, but sort of tried to figure out like, I know I have creativity in me. One of the ways that I learned how to like use that was through writing and editing.
00:58:15:11 - 00:58:44:19
Katherine Lewin
But I also knew that I wanted to like, create something so that I could like, feel and touch and hold and give to other people. But I'm not a painter, I'm not an artist, I'm not a filmmaker. I'm not I'm none of those sort of like immediate projects or jobs are ones that I felt like I could really do.
00:58:44:21 - 00:59:20:20
Katherine Lewin
And so to be able to to take an idea and turn it not as into a viable business, which like isn't necessary for us to survive, but really to to create something that I that I could picture in my mind, even if I didn't know exactly what it would look like. Yet I had a vision of something to see it realized in a space where people can walk around and again, even if they don't buy anything, they can just walk around and take part in that vision and like be inspired.
00:59:20:20 - 00:59:52:21
Katherine Lewin
I hope by it in some small way, and then to leave and maybe like take a memory of that place with them that will, I hope, serve them somewhere else like that is for sure. Without a doubt. Like the the coolest, biggest thing to me is that that sort of like realization of a creative vision and to feel like, this is this is how I was able to like, take that thing I knew I had inside me, but I wasn't really sure what to do with it.
00:59:52:22 - 01:00:42:09
Katherine Lewin
I think it's just been like such a privilege, such a privilege to be able to realize a creative dream in real life. Like how many people get to do that? It's just like it's it feels like just I feel so lucky every day that that is what I get to do. The hardship is the flipside of that sort of privilege, and that is that you're putting something out into the world that people it's like everyone has access to the inside of my brain now and that is really pretty vulnerable.
01:00:42:12 - 01:01:39:15
Katherine Lewin
Like and people will tell you what they think about the inside of your brain. And you know, it's the same way that, you know, people who open restaurants face whatever people are going to say about them, whether it's, you know, criticism in a formal way or a Yelp reviewer, a Google review, like it's like you're putting your brain and your heart and your body like into the world and just hoping people will like it and get it, but also knowing that, like some won't and, you know, like being able to weather that scary feeling of what people think and not knowing, you know, like it's it's it's just it's a very it's a very vulnerable
01:01:39:15 - 01:02:03:17
Katherine Lewin
position to be in. I would say and as someone who is very much an introvert, it's like yeah sometimes I just feel like so expose and not just because like it's me who physically is in the shop most days, but also because like Big Night came from the deep insides of my brains and then I was lucky enough to be able to bring it to life.
01:02:03:17 - 01:02:26:02
Katherine Lewin
But now it exists for other people. And that's something I like, really like feel strongly about. It's like the shop is for my customers and everything that I do, the decisions they make are for them. And that's also really scary sometimes because what if they don't like it? And what, you know, what what are they going to say if they don't like it?
01:02:26:03 - 01:02:49:10
Katherine Lewin
And I think that's that's absolutely just like what comes with being lucky enough to put your work into the world is like you got to, you know, know that people when you give it, when you share something with someone or with with everyone, then you have to be ready for what comes with that. And that can just be a scary part of it.
01:02:49:12 - 01:03:09:12
Jordan Haro
Is there anything like a piece of advice or anything you could like give to your, your past self through what you've learned in this process from him standing here now and, you know, having this this business for months, you know, up and running.
01:03:09:14 - 01:03:50:11
Katherine Lewin
I think that as I even like sit here talking about the fear of what other people will think, I think just as important as hearing feedback and taking feedback, it's also having the confidence that like you're putting everything you have into this and that in itself like that, that is worth and value. And just reminding, you know, reminding myself of that and, you know, stop worrying when other people will think and have confidence that like if I'm putting my all my every shred of my being into this, then like, that's got to be worth something.
01:03:50:11 - 01:04:20:10
Katherine Lewin
And yeah, I think I think ultimately what's been really great to hear from people is like people can see that effort and people can see that you're trying to build something and especially when they can see that you're building it for them or that like you're building something that you hope they'll really enjoy. Like people are so kind and supportive and excited about being a part of that thing that you're building.
01:04:20:11 - 01:04:44:03
Katherine Lewin
And I think the more you can bring people into that and like let them be a part of it, like let them give you feedback. Let them tell you what they loved about something or what they want to see more of. I think the more you can let people in, then the less lonely or scary that feeling of putting yourself out there is because you know, you're saying, Yeah, tell me what you think.
01:04:44:03 - 01:05:08:16
Katherine Lewin
I want to hear it. I want you to be a part of this and that. That makes it much less scary and much more of a community, which is obviously, you know, if you open a shop, then you want there to be a community around it. So less fear, more saying, Yes, please come in and tell me what you think and be a part of this thing that we're building together.
01:05:08:18 - 01:05:17:05
Jordan Haro
Amazing. Well, you've definitely inspired me to do the courageous step of putting myself on the microphone.
01:05:17:07 - 01:05:41:04
Katherine Lewin
You do! But. But like you. But. Okay, speaking Of Courageous, you launched a podcast. Let me get this straight. You are a part of a brave enough to launch podcast, but you don't you don't want to bring yourself into that podcast that came from your brain. Why? Jordan Haro?
01:05:41:06 - 01:05:44:14
Jordan Haro
I hate the sound of my voice. I alwayas have.
01:05:44:16 - 01:05:45:17
Katherine Lewin
That's crazy.!
01:05:45:19 - 01:06:06:19
Jordan Haro
I've I've gotten more comfortable with it. Hearing it more. I feel like the times when I hear my voice are just at little moments where I think, God, get that guy out of here. I just I don't like it. And yeah, it's been it's been like kind of a a leap of just growing into that.
01:06:06:19 - 01:06:13:00
Katherine Lewin
And I think this is like the exposure therapy that you were maybe subconsciously looking for now.
01:06:13:02 - 01:06:24:09
Jordan Haro
I was wrestling between ask like, what if I just put a second mic here for this conversation and then bringing it up before we did this, I think was the like the deal sealer. So thank you for.
01:06:24:10 - 01:06:51:13
Katherine Lewin
You should I feel like I feel like the reason that you are good at making podcasts is that you ask really good questions. And I think people want to hear the questions like when I was listening back to the Richard Christiansen thing and he was just fucking talking, I was wondering, I was asking myself like, I wonder what Jordan asked him to get him to say all of this.
01:06:51:13 - 01:07:10:12
Katherine Lewin
And I think like for people that are interested in storytelling, it's like the way that you ask a question and a conversation evolves is like an interesting piece of like context for how they answer, you know? And I think, like, you're really good at asking really good questions. Just how you been able to get people to talk this way.
01:07:10:14 - 01:07:19:16
Katherine Lewin
But I feel like people probably might want to hear what you what you're bringing to it, too, you know? Yeah.
01:07:19:18 - 01:07:42:09
Jordan Haro
Thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah. And I think another thing for me is just being concise because that like this, like I've just been like, okay, just like four words do that instead of like, I could, I could spend like a whole minute and a half be like, but like, you know, there's this in this thing in like, ba ba ba ba ba ba.
01:07:42:09 - 01:07:44:16
Jordan Haro
So tell me, what do you think about that? You know, like.
01:07:44:16 - 01:07:47:00
Katherine Lewin
But couldn't you edit later? It'd be hard.
01:07:47:00 - 01:07:53:06
Jordan Haro
Yes, I can, but yeah, I think I was just wanting to, like, just cut. Cut me out.
01:07:53:09 - 01:08:00:05
Katherine Lewin
You're doing great. You're doing so well. The people want to hear you. I also, like you, really do have a really good voice for audio.
01:08:00:09 - 01:08:01:12
Jordan Haro
Thanks.
01:08:01:14 - 01:08:08:00
Katherine Lewin
Like I feel like this could be like a side hustle for you, as you could be like a voiceover person.
01:08:08:02 - 01:08:09:05
Jordan Haro
I would love that.
01:08:09:07 - 01:08:35:22
Katherine Lewin
If I like, I get so uncomfortable, so uncomfortable whenever there's like a camera pointed at me. But like, I would love to like, I don't know. To me, audio is like, so enjoyable because, like, no one's looking at your face and like, I don't ever want to see what I look like when thinking through something, you know, like, I just don't.
01:08:36:00 - 01:08:53:12
Katherine Lewin
I want to see what I think that I like. I'm very expressive with my face and as such I really don't like for that to be on display for people like, but I like that like with audio, like you can hear like the struggle on someone's voice or like the way they're trying to get at something. But you don't have to, like, see it.
01:08:53:14 - 01:09:10:23
Katherine Lewin
And I just like, listen to so many podcasts or trials and so many podcasts from like, God, you're so bad. And I seem to be like, you can tell that the podcaster just wants to talk. And then it's like, should I have to answer the question? No. Like, So what do you think about that? And it's like, then why don't you just have a podcast where you just talk?
01:09:10:23 - 01:09:38:01
Katherine Lewin
Because I but my point is that I think you're really inclined naturally, like pulling information out of people. And that like, inherently means that you're that type of, like, self-interested. I don't know. I just think that, like, you should feel confident that like the way that you naturally ask questions or like have an interest, other people will be apparent in the way that you are asking the questions, and that could add a lot.
01:09:38:03 - 01:09:39:07
Jordan Haro
Thank you.
01:09:39:09 - 01:09:41:07
Katherine Lewin
Did you expect for this to turn into a therapy session?
01:09:41:10 - 01:09:49:05
Jordan Haro
I did not. but I appreciate it. I mean, this this is this is the kind of growth I think I needed to face in the new year.
01:09:49:07 - 01:09:52:10
Katherine Lewin
Yeah. who. What are your upcoming guests?
01:09:52:12 - 01:10:11:13
Jordan Haro
So there's Hak Lonh who does Gamboge. cool. His story is amazing. there's Arnold Byun Who is? He ran this really cool pop up called Nemo. Naemo.
01:10:11:15 - 01:10:12:13
Katherine Lewin
Yes.
01:10:12:15 - 01:10:27:07
Jordan Haro
The Korean food is so good. So good. And there's this amazing woman that I did a remote interview with who runs this fucking amazing knife shop in New Orleans.
01:10:27:10 - 01:10:28:02
Katherine Lewin
cool.
01:10:28:04 - 01:10:30:14
Jordan Haro
That is so I'll share the shop with you.
01:10:30:14 - 01:10:31:06
Katherine Lewin
Sure. Yeah.
01:10:31:06 - 01:10:51:10
Jordan Haro
It's not just knives, too. It's like dinner ware, It's like chef ware, but, yeah for the home and, like, you know, has, like, cookbooks and sharpening tools and pots and pans. It's awesome. But she used to be - she is an accomplished and has worked at, like, all the big restaurants in New Orleans.
01:10:51:12 - 01:10:52:12
Katherine Lewin
What's her name?
01:10:52:14 - 01:11:19:04
Jordan Haro
Jacqueline Blanchard. Okay. And she she was like, Per Se you know, everything. But, she's also opening up like a izakaya place right now, but like, she has a New Orleans and Nashville knife shop of this. It's called Coutelier And they make, like, immaculate. I actually have some. I'll show you these, like, Japanese knives that are like that.
01:11:19:06 - 01:12:01:14
Jordan Haro
They partner with steelmakers in Japan, all these local artisans that are like, like there was one, she said they're like biggest account or whatever is a family that they've been making steel since like the 1200s. And The way they got into it was when like the Christians came to like invade Japan and like convert the Buddhists. The Buddhists like had to bear arms and like defend themselves and the Buddhist like, well, basically samurai, they're like, they're Buddhist knights.
01:12:01:16 - 01:12:05:08
Jordan Haro
They had to bear arms and like, this family made the steel for them.
01:12:05:08 - 01:12:06:10
Katherine Lewin
That's insane.
01:12:06:12 - 01:12:15:01
Jordan Haro
Yeah. And so at some point they like, obviously gave up the sword making and went into culinary stuff. So she, they have like, all that.
01:12:15:05 - 01:12:15:23
Katherine Lewin
That's awesome.
01:12:16:00 - 01:12:26:08
Jordan Haro
Yeah. And I think there's man, the guy I interviewed in the North Fork right after I said, yeah, right before I saw you such a cool guy.
01:12:26:08 - 01:12:41:23
Katherine Lewin
We still haven’t opened the bottle and it sat on our, on our bar cart and we, we were just so dead tired every night that every night Alex would be like tonight's night, we're going to get that bottle and we just, like, fell asleep. But we can't wait to make cocktails with it.
01:12:41:23 - 01:13:06:23
Jordan Haro
It's fun. It's fun. Yeah. The melons, I think, came from his farm. He he his name is Pete Treiber. He's an old friend of Ann’s and he is a rad dude who just, like, is one of the only people. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of farmers out there, but, like, he's our age, all organic, everything, like, just beautiful produce.
01:13:06:23 - 01:13:07:12
Jordan Haro
And just to.
01:13:07:14 - 01:13:09:22
Katherine Lewin
I need to introduce my sister, I need to connect with him.
01:13:10:00 - 01:13:40:12
Jordan Haro
100%. it's. It's just such a good vibe out there. And he is also like an artist, you know, like he, he, he was like, deep in the art game in New York City, like fine arts, like sculpture work, and like, working as, like a apprentice and, you know, really into that, it was like I’m going to go to the farm and really went all in and, yeah, he's, he's a really legendary dude, I think.
01:13:40:14 - 01:13:43:01
Jordan Haro
I think that's the gambit.
01:13:43:03 - 01:13:46:06
Katherine Lewin
You've been able to, like pull lot of like really big people.
01:13:46:08 - 01:13:48:02
Jordan Haro
Yeah, I mean, just cold.
01:13:48:07 - 01:13:51:21
Katherine Lewin
Just cold emailing like, yeah, I'm, I do this podcast, you want to be on it.
01:13:51:21 - 01:13:55:23
Jordan Haro
Pete was the one who he's the first one who came to me. That was cool.
01:13:56:05 - 01:13:57:00
Katherine Lewin
Pete is.
01:13:57:00 - 01:14:00:20
Jordan Haro
The farmer. The farmer? Yeah. He kept be like, Hey man, this is really cool.
01:14:00:20 - 01:14:02:13
Katherine Lewin
And I'm like, “Mm-hmm”
01:14:02:15 - 01:14:09:07
Jordan Haro
Yeah, I Well, I mean, it was just so clear he wanted to be on. And when I asked because like, yes, I've been waiting for this.
01:14:09:12 - 01:14:11:05
Katherine Lewin
my God, he was angling for it.
01:14:11:06 - 01:14:14:18
Jordan Haro
Yeah, but, yeah.
01:14:14:20 - 01:14:23:11
Katherine Lewin
how much of your, like, if you're, if your work life was like a pie chart, how much of the pie is the podcast getting?
01:14:23:13 - 01:14:51:02
Jordan Haro
It varies. I've slowed right now like I've, I've been working on it like 50%. No, like 20% yesterday. And that's all this year. Last year, I would say like when it was in my life, it would be like, like 60% like it became. But then like work that I'm actually being paid for would suffer.
01:14:51:05 - 01:14:52:04
Katherine Lewin
Right.
01:14:52:06 - 01:15:15:14
Jordan Haro
My goal is to get it to a place where I like for right now to hopefully get like, I don't know how sponsorship works, but to be able to have enough money to where I could just pay for the guy who scores the music and like the hosting and all that stuff. Just be able to like, you know, kind of not have like overhead, right?
01:15:15:14 - 01:15:16:23
Jordan Haro
It's a very low amount of money.
01:15:16:23 - 01:15:18:06
Katherine Lewin
Right? Right.
01:15:18:08 - 01:15:27:13
Jordan Haro
That would be cool cause then it would feel like less about like, you know, just scraping it up off of the back seat.
01:15:27:15 - 01:15:34:20
Katherine Lewin
Do you feel like podcasting is like something that you like? If given the opportunity, you wouldn't make this, like, a full time.
01:15:34:22 - 01:16:00:02
Jordan Haro
Yeah. When? When I was at Pete’s farm, like, I felt like. I'm sure you've watched, like, Ugly Delicious, or, like, it's like when they do the like, like Lolis Elie which I would love to interview that guy. Like the guy in New Orleans. Like the way that he'll go off on, like, an assignment within the thing and, like, sit with all these people at a table and, like, so, like, what's your deal, what's your, what's your story?
01:16:00:02 - 01:16:16:16
Jordan Haro
And they're like, all around a meal. And like, I never knew it could taste like this. And like, that was literally the experience at the farm and, except no cameras. But like, yeah, like that would be so cool if that was like your job, you know?
01:16:16:19 - 01:16:33:02
Katherine Lewin
Yeah, well, then I feel like it makes sense for you to be giving it this much time, even if it's like, you know, even if, like, you're paying some overhead. Absolutely. To the next thing.
01:16:33:04 - 01:16:43:10
Jordan Haro
Yeah. And it's, it's in a like an, a fun phase too. It's not like, like doing this. It's like, okay, whatever. Like just switching it around. Doesn’t have to be too-
01:16:43:10 - 01:16:47:09
Katherine Lewin
Yeah, prescriptive. Yeah, yeah. So fun.
01:16:47:11 - 01:16:48:13
Jordan Haro
Yeah.
01:16:48:15 - 01:16:58:14
Katherine Lewin
How? Well, let me know if there's anyone. I mean, I don't have any connections, but let me know if there's anybody that I do that You do think I connected to that you would want to talk to you?
01:16:58:16 - 01:17:16:21
Jordan Haro
Sure, I you know, it's funny. I still connected with Naama that’s how you say it? Yeah. And like, we basically are in a like rain check phase, like, I checked in with her, and she's just like, like New York is crazy. Crazy? Like, I know don’t worry
01:17:16:22 - 01:17:26:20
Katherine Lewin
Is really fucking crazy, but she is a good talker. She will just go. Yeah, like she would say a lot of things I feel. Yeah.
01:17:26:22 - 01:17:28:12
Jordan Haro
She seems. like perfect.
01:17:28:14 - 01:18:11:08
Katherine Lewin
She's a real character for sure. It's interesting that you're sort of like calling a mix of, like, restaurant and makers and, and I think that's what's interesting is like, it's like multi many subject matters within like a large umbrella, like food and restaurants, but like, you know, Chef's Table is like, just interested in like chefs. And, you know, I think like I mentioned the deli, which is like just interested in makers and I think there's like something to like a lot of different personalities in and around food and restaurants cause everyone has like very different perspectives based on what they're, you know, what part, what role they play.
01:18:11:10 - 01:18:21:06
Jordan Haro
Yeah, So I forgot to, I interviewed, my old neighbor, Marian Cooper Cairns, who she is a food stylist.
01:18:21:09 - 01:18:22:04
Katherine Lewin
cool.
01:18:22:06 - 01:18:41:04
Jordan Haro
And that was cool. That was like such a different world from, you know, just now, like she does, like, big cookbooks, like she used to work as a staff on staff at Southern Living for a long time.
01:18:41:04 - 01:18:41:16
Katherine Lewin
It's cool.
01:18:41:17 - 01:18:46:18
Jordan Haro
Yeah, she's. Yeah, Yeah. Opening it up in that way, it's like, such.
01:18:46:20 - 01:19:12:02
Katherine Lewin
Like a big focus. Yeah. Like, I was just thinking about this guy, Teddy, who I know because he wrote his shot. He was our staff, one of our staff photographers, and he has, like, seen, like, every fucking new restaurant in New York City, and he is the co-founder of the Deli and. He shoots all of the photography for it, but he's like, so well connected because he has shot every restaurant in like, I'm sure he'd have some, like, really good stories.
01:19:12:04 - 01:19:14:21
Katherine Lewin
He shot the store as well, like for our opening press shots.
01:19:14:22 - 01:19:16:14
Jordan Haro
Sick.
01:19:16:15 - 01:19:21:05
Katherine Lewin
But yeah, I'll keep thinking, well, hopefully I'm not too boring compared to all of your other interests.
01:19:21:05 - 01:19:55:15
Jordan Haro
No, you're perfect. Yes, I like. Not only is your story amazing and like it's inspiring as just you're starting a new endeavor, like that's just incredible on its own, but like, the the way that you've been, like, growing in like all these different industries that you've worked in and like to be doing this, like in your on your own end, for it to be in this space that you like, I know it means a lot to you and like, that's amazing to see.
01:19:55:15 - 01:20:01:09
Jordan Haro
And in New York City, you're not just like, I went to some random small town where there's no thing there, like.
01:20:01:15 - 01:20:02:03
Katherine Lewin
Yeah.
01:20:02:05 - 01:20:05:19
Jordan Haro
Like this. Like, this is like you're jumping in.
01:20:05:20 - 01:20:08:01
Katherine Lewin
Yeah, yes,
01:20:08:01 - 01:20:27:09
Katherine Lewin
you have to have a thick skin. Like, you have to, like, it's this, like, push and pull of. Give me feedback. Please be a part of this. I want to build a community. And then also, like, you have to be confident in what you are building and like stay the course and like not let one comment or one piece of feedback like hurt your feelings.
01:20:27:09 - 01:20:47:21
Katherine Lewin
It's not personal. Like the business is not I am not Big Night ; I've built Big Night and it's like very important that like I remember that it's not, you know, you want people to love it. You want people to like it. And then it can be very easy for you to conflate that with. Like you want people to like me and they don't need to like me.
01:20:47:21 - 01:21:10:06
Katherine Lewin
And because they don't like Big Night doesn't mean they think I'm a bad person. You know, it's crazy to say that, like it's crazy. But when the thing is something that, like you've put so much of yourself into, you have to remind yourself that it also isn't you and it's it's definitely like something I'm still learning every day.
01:21:10:08 - 01:21:17:04
Jordan Haro
So yeah, well, it's cool just to watch from afar. You're doing an awesome job.
01:21:17:05 - 01:21:21:20
Katherine Lewin
Thank you.
01:21:21:22 - 01:21:41:19
Jordan Haro
Thanks for listening everyone for the links and resources about everything discussed today, please visit the show notes in the episode and if you to support the podcast. The most effective way to do so is at the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other platform that you're listening in from sharing the show with your friends and social media is always appreciated.
01:21:41:21 - 01:22:14:03
Jordan Haro
Shout out to Shawn Meyers for creating the awesome original music. Graphic elements were made by Jason Cryer. The show is produced by Homecourt Pictures. You can always reach out to me @Jordanhar0 on Instagram and twitter.. You can follow the show @prixfixepod on instagram. Sorry, my French is terrible. Or email us via prixfixepodcast@gmail.com.
01:22:14:05 - 01:22:30:04
Jordan Haro
I appreciate every second of your attention and support and look forward to seeing you on next one.